Posted by Amy K on September 04, 2003 at 23:43:07:
In Reply to: Thanks, Amy... posted by Mels on September 04, 2003 at 21:15:23:
Let's just say, for argument's sake, that I lived 2000 years ago and had a very close group of friends. We ate, slept, and traveled together for three years. All of these friends hung on my words, because they were convinced that I was the messiah, the promised one who was to come. These friends believed in heaven and in hell, and they wanted to be VERY sure that they were going to heaven, so they asked me a lot of questions about it. They trusted that I knew the way. They listened to me teach about how to get to heaven day after day and year after year. I told them that I was going to give myself as a sacrifice for all of their sins, and that it was only through me that they could find forgiveness and entrance into heaven. Let's say that I usually said something like, "You can only get to heaven through me."
Thirty to fifty years later, some of these friends decided to write down my teachings. Since I had left them, they had taught my words faithfully every day to many people. Furthermore, they loved me and realized that they were responsible to record my teachings faithfully. They realized, in fact, that the eternal fate of some could hang on their message. Do you think they would record my message correctly, or incorrectly? Do you think it would matter if they said, "Amy is the only way to get to heaven" instead of "The only way to get to heaven is Amy?"
It seems to me that you are assuming that the Gospels were NOT recorded correctly, when in fact we have every reason to believe that they were. Keep in mind that many of the witnesses who were alive at the time of Jesus were still around at the time the Gospels were written, and these witnesses were familiar with Jesus's very public teachings as well.
I never said that memorizing a book is going to get you to heaven, and I'm sure that you don't really think I believe that. The thing that gets us to heaven is simply trusting in what God did for us by sending His Son as a sacrifice for our sins. It is through this trust that we are born again and become new creatures in Christ, willing and able to obey God. Would you give your child as a sacrifice for people who hated and mocked you? Would you have that love? I am sorry that this God is not a God you want to know.
I'm glad you've read the Bible, as well as the Old Testament. I think that people who don't read the Old Testament have an incomplete picture of God. I don't follow the Old Testament practices because I am now under the new covenant as a believer in Christ. The new covenant is thoroughly explained in the New Testament, as I'm sure you know if you are familiar with the Bible.
You seem to be accusing me of having certain beliefs because I "want" things to be that way. The Christian life isn't easy. It's not easy to say, "Okay, I'm not going to do things my way anymore. I'm going to do things God's way." Don't you think that most people, given the choice, would choose to do whatever they jolly well please all of the time?
I could say that you are the one who is choosing your beliefs to conform with your own desires, but I don't know you well enough to make that judgment. However, I do know that you ache for the baby you lost. Now, in all fairness, you said that you believed in reincarnation before you ever had that abortion. But, would you admit that it's possible you're holding on to those beliefs because you want your baby back so very badly? Don't get angry--just realize that the same thing you were saying about Christians could apply to yourself.
Yes, I studied Buddhism and other world religions in college. Buddhism has some very serious problems, and Siddhartha was just a man (and so, by your own admission, he was fallible).
I don't need you to confirm my beliefs; they are rock-solid. In fact, the things that you have been saying only serve to further confirm to me certain truths of Scripture.
That being said (and I'm sure you've heard this analogy), if you were in a burning building and I knew the only way out, wouldn't it be my responsibility to try to tell you? If I said, "Look, this is the only way out--you need to come this way!," would you accuse me of being judgemental, arrogant, and narrow-minded, or would you think that I was showing love and concern? (I'm not saying you called me those names--you didn't. But you see my point.) You said that you are glad I have my beliefs. But if I really and truly believe with all my mind and soul that you will go to hell without Christ, wouldn't you agree that I should tell you that? Wouldn't I be remiss if I didn't? If I didn't try to tell you, wouldn't that mean that I don't really truly believe in Christianity at all, or that I really didn't care about you at all?
Satan is described in the Bible as being a beautiful, intelligent creature, not some horned monstrosity. The Bible says that Satan "disguises himself as an angel of light" (II Corinthians 11:14). It also says that he is "the father or lies" (John 8:44). Not everything that is evil and false appears evil and false.
Thanks for your time and your thoughts. I'm sorry you had a rough day!
Still YOUR friend, :)
Amy
: Amy, thanks for taking the time to clarify all that.
: If all you say is true, then I guess in the Christian estimation, I'm going to hell. But I honestly don't believe I am. As close to the original time period as the books were written, they still weren't copied right then & there in shorthand...or recorded...they were written years later. If I were to go to a seminar today and then asked to write down everything the teacher said word-for-word, even if it were directly after the seminar, I'd get some of it wrong. I just don't trust anything written by man 100%. We are fallible; we make mistakes.
: If knowledge, understanding, opening my body for my baby's soul to try to come through again, raising two children without abuse and with love, working hard, being fair and honest WON'T get me to heaven, but memorizing a book will, well then, I say again...that's not a god I want to know.
: Amy, I know you feel you're trying to do a good thing. But trying to change someone's beliefs isn't always a good thing, even if you think it is. That's why I'm not trying to change you over to mine. I'm explaining myself (though not very well, it seems!). In fact, I have already read one of the books you mentioned: Evidence That Demands a Verdict. I've read the Bible (including the Old Testament...that is god's word, too...so how come Christians don't practice the method of worship in the Old Testament? But I won't even go there). Have you read any books on Buddhism? How about The Prophet by Gibran? He's a little full of himself and overly-flowery, but his view seems right-on to me: Describing a prophet not as other people would like him to have been, but as he would really be during his time on earth.
: We all need our ideas of the perfect person to follow. You have yours. I don't have one, because I don't think any one thing is perfect. All differences are beautiful in their own way. And all are necessary to make the world spin.
: But again...I don't want to convince you. It won't help my beliefs any to have other people believe them. That's another major difference I've always found between Christians and non-Christians. Non-Christians are never so anxious to convert people. We're satisfied in our own beliefs...we don't need other people to confirm anything for us. :)
: Ah well. Long, long day. My husband hit my sister's car in the driveway today, we had a huge fight, work was tough, Colin cried a lot. Off I go to try to pick up the pieces. I'll keep trying...even if I am going to go to Hell, at least I'll be able to tell all the other devils there about my adorable kids and about how much I tried to accomplish during my time on earth. It will at least make for interesting burning-session conversation! Help while away the time and all that...
: Still your friend,
: Mels
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